Who will Clean the Toilets under Islam?

Mutee: We should implement Islam in our country [Pakistan] and lives and everything thing will be fine we don't need anyone except we should just seek guidance from islam.

Solomon2: Who will clean the toilets under Islam?

Mutee: u can if u want

Solomon2: And if I don't, what then?

Mutee: Every one with a good civic sense and everyone who feels he has an obligation towards the society not by just cleaning toilets but doing everything that's needed to be done

Solomon2: Yet that would mean that the civic-minded who clean toilets are serving those not-so-civic-minded who use their time as they wish. Is that not injustice?

Mutee: When u implement a system everyone becomes a part of that system if that system is not flawed and it's NOT so everyone will come onboard and ur assuming that the only doing an odd job will be servicing the one not doing an odd job everyone will do his|her duty that shall be assigned to them by the society don't make it about one thing in particular

Solomon2: How is this different from the totalitarianism of Communism?

Mutee: Communism is a godless society and your services are rendered forcefully in this case it's different because you voluntarily offer your self to the community I am talking about something totally different

Solomon2: Yet you've pointed out that if I don't volunteer to clean the toilet I'll be assigned to do so, doubtless by someone who doesn't have to clean toilets at all. And if I don't like it, well, how do I know that both of us are serving G-d? It would appear to me that one of us isn't.

Mutee: Islam asks us to follow the leader an ameer prince of believers so as long as he delegates authority a Muslim living under his rule shudnt have a problem with that and if the ameer is not righteous and orders one to do something which is not allowed in Islam the responsibility is his on the day of judgment...I hope I have satisfied your Mind now tc brother

Solomon2: What you are saying is that I am supposed to accept serving a man, not G-d, and any injustice I may suffer at his hands will be remedied on the Day of Judgment? If that is that case, then how can implementing Islam in Pakistan possibly make "lives and everything thing fine" if the only remedy can be sought in the next world, not this one?

Mutee: well there CAN be a council of elders to watch over the ameer but it's the responsibility of pplmtonchose righteous one among them Pakistan will have to start from scratch if they want to do something like that it's about changing the mindset of ppl and pakistanis I see are very indifferent they don't care simply put and if you are suffering in this world there is no gurantee in anyother system that your sufferings will be over but in this system you have a chance that god fearing man will speak. Out on your behalf if you are treated badly

Solomon2: Under the influence of those who want to Islamicize Pakistan men and women cannot speak freely without fear of imprisonment or assassination. So why shouldn't Pakistanis choose a tried-and-tested constitutional form of government like America's rather than a religious dictatorship or the current smear-of-democracy-over-military-rule?

Mutee: Because those ppl have misrepresented Islam they are NOT the soldiers of Islam as they claim they are just thugs and criminals fighting to impose there own agenda all they do is kill in name if Islam they are a stigma to us and as far as your opinion is concerned if u say American democracy has worked well for everyone then ur simply wrong it worked but now it's failing I never visited USA but I have seen Europe I shudnt compare the two but I believe things in USA are going downhill but you guys don't see or feel the effects because systems are still well placed here in Pakistan there us no system just lot of corruption in the name if democracy and military rule

Solomon2: People have claimed America is going downhill for two hundred years. I figure that as long as we have some voices like that America will be O.K. Can you tell us why American-type democracy wouldn't work for Pakistan? At the very least you wouldn't need the totalitarianism that seems to be part of any scheme of Islamicization.

Mutee: I do admit that whatever Muslims has done so far will actually make someone very worried if someone talks about Islamic law but you have to distinguish between propaganda and facts no we don't want to rule the world we just want peace in our lives and this system cannot deliver

Solomon2: Constitutional democracy with the rule of law and minority rights will give you the opportunity to develop your ideas further with a proven system of justice and without fear of molestation. American democracy is far from perfect. We've spent over two hundred years perfecting the American Experiment. But it shows the best promise for the best government the world has ever seen. I, for one, would like to see more contributions Muslims could make towards perfection.

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim: 30 million unemployed is hardly what I would call a flourishing society... Thats the reality of America today... and they have run out of digits to count their debt...America is not a model for us... sorry Solomon 2... You have 2 try again... Do pardon the pun

Solomon2: We've experienced high unemployment and debt before and gotten out of such holes.

We'll be out of the debt situation eventually. Most people who, faced with the choice of taking on debt now to buy a house or car or waiting a few years to save the money, will choose debt and to pay off the loan through earnings. More debts will be paid off as the economy bounces back and earnings recover.

As for unemployment: some people consider Saudi Arabia as the closest entity on Earth to the ideal Islamic state. Yet its nationals - not "citizens" because I don't think of anybody as a citizen who can't pay taxes in their country of residence - also experience double-digit employment: an astounding 39 percent of Saudis aged 20-24 are without work. link

The Saudi King Abdullah, returning home to the adulation of his people from successful medical treatment in the U.S., has announced his cure to the problem, suddenly his primary concern in the wake of the 2011 Arab Revolutions: hire everybody! Even if they have nothing to do! Yes indeed, the oil-bloated Sauds, in possession of wealth far beyond the dreams of Croesus, have no need to tax their subjects or employ slaves as did their ancestors. All they require is a docile populace.

Yet isn't underemployment even worse in some ways than unemployment? Think of the waste of productivity, unused potential, lack of sense of accomplishment, and low level of joy, stuck in a dead job with little to point to as achievement, yet without being free to seek improvement elsewhere?

Well, in the West we also have a class of inhabitants who pay no taxes, who are expected to contribute little if anything to productivity, and who exist primarily to cheer and slobber when their master comes home.

They are called pets.

Mutee: well simply because most laws that still work here were established by the British which served their own intrest very well but unfortunately we never tried to amend those law we simply gave those law a makeover and implemented them again and accountability is not here because of these laws now since we have been living under the sane conditions for so long we have become immuned to any type for morals that's the mindset of our nation as a whole so I say other sstems can't work here we have to go back to our roots and starry reperaing from there instead if experimenting example for British laws I mentioned above Pakistan motor insurance law 1937 still applicable so an exotic car is not insured against terrorist activity u have to pay extra to put a special claw that protects against it

Solomon2: American ways are not the ways of British colonialism. Just look at our Declaration of Independence: most of it is devoted to Americans justifying breaking their oaths of loyalty to King and Crown due. The key issue is abuse of authority. Some of the complaints may even be familiar to Pakistanis: link Had Pakistan taken this route, rather than throwing off the British yoke while leaving its corrupting colonial system of governance intact, I doubt Pakistani would be as misgoverned as it is in today.